| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
   |
Posted - 2012.03.08 16:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok my first toon is on this account. I have him remapped for max training. He's training at 2700 skill points per hour and has been for a few years. I've had him remapped intel / mem for probably about 2 years to get all of my support skills out of the way. I've had to create another account to have a useful toon. You can make fun of my OCD skill training all you want but thinking long term with regards to my skills is how I like to play the game.
Because of my long term training I do not have very much spaceship command trained on him. So I'll use Battlecruiser for an example. If you take 1.5 million skillpoints away from pilots that now have BC 5 trained and give them 6 million to spend on 4 races worth then that kind of makes the past two years of maxing out skill training worthless as I will be missing out on 4.5 million free skillpoints that I would have had had I trained differently
Further more I'm considering burning one of my remaps to get those trained before this expansion hits but that would really mess up my long term plan
On my other toon I've dropped everything that I was working on to train BC and dessi so I don't miss out on skill points and will train caldari cruiser 4 then caldari BS to make sure I can fly the nightmare without having to train caldari BC 4 just to get BS 1. But that's not what I want to be training now and it messes up my skill queue for the next tow months on that toon
The speculation that you have caused with this has people jumping all around and I don't think it's good. You tell us don't worry you will be able to fly what ever you can fly now but that is not the only concern. I think you need to let people know what is going to happen in enough time for them to burn up remaps and do what ever they need to do to make the most out of the changes with regards to long term plans.
If I wake up the day after the expansion hits and find out that I'm 6 million skill points behind everyone else I'll be more than a little pissed to say the least. Maxing out skill training is the absolute main thing I focus on in this game. Everything else comes secondary. |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 16:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
I recently moved into a space that has Sansha rats. Since I had BC 4 already I trained Amarr cruiser and jumped in a Harby to try out lazors. It did not take much for me to transition from Galenete to Amarr to give lazors a try that way. I liked the lazors enough that I started training Amarr so that I can fly an Amarr BS soon
I almost never see all level 5 days on SiSi. So the destroyer and the Battlecruiser class ships are an important part of the game. It is a spot where players can try other races out without having to commit 6 months of training to find out you don't like it. Especially now with the Tier 3 Battlecruisers, you can try small medium and large guns out of any race without having to train all the way up to Battleship 4 just to get a taste. I think removing that is a really bad move. If you insist on doing so i suggest that you alternate weeks or days or something like that where on some regular schedule you have all level 5 on SiSi so people can fly other ships to decide which direction to go with training
When I first started playing this game I made a minmatar toon. I am a PvE only player and rapidly grew to hate minmatar ships for mission running. I was a bit upset when 4 months into the game I discovered that I've been training the wrong race the whole time. No biggie because I was able to try out the drake and discover what an awesome mission boat it is and then started cross training.
In this game currently each race has a definite role and use. Minmatar are supposed to be the PvP kings. Caldari the PvE kings. Amarr are the dps king and Galenete are very versatile, not king of anything but good at everything. The new player making their first character does not know that. It would seem to me that you are locking new players into one race for a long time before they are competent enough to crosstrain. The only way I can see this working out is if you dumb down all the races and re-balance everything so each race is exactly equal. WoW did this and it's a big part of why that game sucks, If you guys are going to head down the wow path of balancing all the races and classes it will be the end of this game. Please stop trying to be WoW. That game sucks and is dying. If you try to be like them you will die also
Keep the different roles of the different races and leave these 2 points of experimentation of small, medium and large turrets. |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 16:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
but a pvp-race, a pve-race ... just no. one reason for the rebalancing of ships to get rid of that.
And I"m telling you that is the main thing that ruined WoW and I feel it will ruin this game as well. The removal of specialization from WoW is one of the biggest reasons that I came to Eve. To have all 4 races be the same except for the look of the ship is pointless. Why even have different races then? This is very much a step in the wrong direction and I'm not looking for you to agree or disagree with me. Just watch and see. If they do "balance" the races it will dumb this game down and turn it into WoW / Spaceship Barbie.
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Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 17:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Creat Posudol wrote:
Most new players currently also don't train 2-3 races' cruiser skill to get access to 6+ BC the skill itself might allow, but will stick with one race in the beginning (and for good reason). It takes enough time to train up one weapon system in the beginning anyway..
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This is different for different Races. Minmatar pilots for example due to mixed weapon systems and mixed tank already have to train: Sheild, Armor and speed tanks as well as projectile and missile skills. So a brand new minmatar pilot is working up through the ships and gets to level 3 missions and is having a rough time in his Hurricane but has T2 heavy launchers already and BC5 he can just train Caldari cruiser 3 and be a good drake pilot. This allows him to mostly stick with his Minmatar specialization as we moves on in the game towards low and null sec stuff where the minmatar ships will serve him better
Remove that option and CCP seems to be wanting to " balance " all races and make them all equally competent at all things. If you do that then a new player will be able to learn everything that he needs to know by looking at the images of the different race's ships by looking at them in the new ship viewer on the Eve website before they ever start an account or hit the character creation screen. So once you decide which ships look prettier that's as much as you'll ever need to know. Cross training will be simply for looks or style since there is no real functional difference. That is removing a huge part of the flavor of this game. |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 18:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
all 4 races should not be the same. that you got right. but every race should offer good possibilities for pve, pvp, ...
other wise 0.0 and low would be populated by minmatar pilots only, because there is a lot of pvp going around in that areas
having only one race for one aspect of the game is dumbing the game down. giving alternatives creates different ways to achive the same goal -> diversity => complexit
i can understand your anxiety for 4 races which are exactly the same. but that is not going to happen. balancing does not equal homogenisation. in fact, thats what makes proper balancing such a pain in the a....
That is a gross over simplification and I realize that I did the same but I intend to clarify. I am speaking strictly of T1 ships as it has been stated else where that T2 and T3 are totally different classifications and different situations
So minmatar have speed over the other races and do damage into huge falloff's. So in a one on one brute force battle the minmatar ships can typically choose engagement distance and eat up their competition. But minmatar ships also typically have the absolute worst tank to even things out.
Caldari have ECM and awesome tanks and are very useful in PvP as is shown by their dominance in the Alliance tournaments in recent years. I'm not saying that Minmatar should be the only race that can PvP. I'm saying that it is well known that if you want to learn to PvP you go out and get a bunch of rifters and look for 1 v 1's
On a similar note, Again T1 ships only, Caldari have the drake and Raven which are both excellent mission boats especially for new players that have not learned about transversal velocity. Good tank decent damage no need to worry about distance things like that. Minmatar though you either fly a typhoon where your damage mods only affect half your highslots or you fly a Tempest or Maelstrom and are stuck choosing between Artillery which can hit nothing either close or small or autocannons which can't hit most of the mission BSs that orbit at 35 km or more. The apoc with it's optimal bonuse and scortch do not have that issue. Galenete have drones. So yes Minmatar damage wise are idealized for PvP and penalized for PvE. I'm not saying you can't mission as a Minmatar pilot and I'm not saying you can't PvP as any of the other races. I'm just saying the the Minmatar weapon system is idealized for PvP and the worst choice for PvE.
The versatility of the Galenete ships make them wonderful choices see the neut domi for examples of this. Amarr ships as well have their place in PvP. As things are now you can do all things with every race it's just that some races do specific things better than other races. That is difference and that is flavor. I'm saying we should keep that.
What I've seen recently is changes to hybrids to make them faster thereby removing the speed benefit of Minmatar ships in PvP . Well speed is all the minmatar ships had. They had the worst tanks and did the worst damage already the falloff and ability to keep people in their falloff was the only benefit they had. Now you will see they have to do something to compensate for their compensation. This will be a perpetual nerfy/buff cycle like you see in WoW in an attempt to make things " equal and balanced" |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 21:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Look at the following scenario. Person 1 is an EVE vet, person 2 is considering starting EVE.
1: So what do you want to do in EVE?
2: I mainly want to PvP.
1: Ok, thats cool, PvP is really fun. You have to train Minmatar then.
2: But I think Gallente looks awesome.
1: Well, Minmatar is superior in most aspects of PvP, so that is what you want to train.
2: But...
1: No. Minmatar. Now.
So here we are, a game that has one option if you want to do one thing, and CCP wants to give us the same possibilities with all the races. How the hell is that a boring, dumbed down, WoW, SWToR game?
Ok so maybe calling minmatar the PvP race is misleading and I should not have said it. It's a specific type of PvP. They are brawlers or scrapers what ever you want to call it. Minmatar ships typically have the worst tank and the weakest electronics but the fastest speed and most falloff and are immune to neuting at least dps wise. So that will dictate a specific style of fighting that has a specific counter. If that style suits you then great.
Caldari have awesome tanks and specialize in sniping and ECM. I'm not going to go over all the pluses and minuses but if you like that style then great.
Amarr are awesome tanks high damage but slow and very sensitive to capacitor warfare ( neuting )
I'll skip Galenete for TL;DR sake but if looks are important to you and you think the Amarr ships look great then fly them for their looks and their looks only. If fighting style is what is important to you then pick the fighting style that is important to you and ignore looks. If you want to compromise and pick a race that you like the look and style then do that.
But when you remove what makes the different races special from a functional standpoint and make looks the only difference then you are indeed dumbing down the game and removing much of it's complexity
If all the races looked the same or similar that would be bad. If all the races performed the same or similar then that would be bad. As things are now all races can and do PvP. All races can and do PvE. I'm just asking to not dumb down. The different styles which give the game some very interesting aspects that make it fun.
What it seems you are proposing in removing one type of variation to make the other choose-able by all and what I'm saying is leave the different type of variations so different people can choose look or function or both and not make the looks based people all important. |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 23:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
So my very first toon was minmatar. I started training minmatar because that's what I was and I did not know any better. I don't PvP and I don't like PvP. When I first found out that Minmatar ships were supposed to be ideal for PvP I was pissed. Very shortly after that I realized that this is not WoW and I could cross train so I did. I trained up the Drake and if served me well, I was able to run level 4's in it.
After my skills got better I realized that all the training in the world was not going to do anything to improve the DPS of the drake or reduce the 4 hours it took me to run some missions.
So then I flew the Raven but was still a little unhappy with the DPS. Every one told me that Marauders were the ultimate mission runners so I looked into them and what I found was disappointing. I saw 4 ships from 4 different races and all 4 had rep amount bonuses. No caldari / amarr resist bonus? No Galenete drone boat? All 4 ships have very similar stats and there really is not much of style difference on how you fight or run missions in them. Yes I trained the Vargur due to the falloff and tracking bonus but I know plenty of people that are just as happy in the Kronos or Paladin and you see Golems at every mission hub.
I honestly don't have an issue with Minmatar ships being the best at PvP and I am a hard core mission runner. If the minmatar ships are the best then train them. You can be in a rifter in a matter of days. But the fact is that all kinds of ships are flown in PvP and all kinds win. Pirate faction ships are clearly better than empire faction ships but you still see people fly the empire race's ships in PvP. This is not WoW. You are not locked into a race or a class. If Minmatar ships are better in PvP then cross train them. That's the beauty of this game. |
Korbin Dallaz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 18:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Andski wrote:
Stick to missions, thanks!
I do, I have and I am. Thanks.
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